BPH and frequency questions

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BPH and frequency questions

Postby Nvr2Late » Mon May 06, 2013 3:45 pm

I hope it's ok to ask basically the same question in two places. I thought it might get more attention here.

My husband is 56 and has BPH, chronic prostatitis and several UTIs per year. He takes as good care of himself as we know to do with medical care etc.
But as of this weekend he complained again of tenderness. Now, we're newlyweds and have been making love most nights - we might skip one night per week unless he's sick. He hasn't been lately.

Last night it occurred to me to google about this problem and what I read was disheartening. The overwhelming advice was to limit sex for a man with his condition to about one or two times per week or less. Some say to give him at least 4-5 days to "recover" between lovemaking. Neither of us is real happy about that, but I think there's something to it. I think he is overdoing it. Not that I'm complaining, mind you....but again it hardly seems worth it if he has to take a week off to heal every month.

Any advice at all?
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Re: BPH and frequency questions

Postby SquarePants » Mon May 06, 2013 7:54 pm

I'm not in my 50's yet, but I've had occasional problems with prostatitis. Contrary to what you've read, my doctor recommended frequent ejaculations. Also, I've also found that prostate massage is very helpful for getting rid of minor prostate infections. If I feel a little bit of tenderness, a massage leaves me feeling normal by the next day. If he has a serious infection, I've read that there are some risk. With my worst infection ever, I had been taking antibiotics for a week or two with minimal improvement. I did some massaging one evening, and there was tremendous improvement by the next day. One of the theories is that prostate massage helps to open up clogged ducts. I always make sure that I I have an ejaculation at the end of the massage to help flush out any infectious fluid. I then do some more massaging. If he has more than a mild infection, it may be wise to make sure that he's on an antibiotic before performing a massage. What works for me may not work for him. Do an internet search and read about possible risks and opposing opinions.

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Re: BPH and frequency questions

Postby Nvr2Late » Tue May 07, 2013 8:47 am

HI Squarepants, thanks for your reply.

He's doing massage, with a vibrating massager and occasionally with an Aneros. Interesting that you find immediate relief with massage. My DH has said the same thing. He doesn't ejaculate however. The frequent ejaculation advice does seem contrary to what I've read on most sites, yet I have seen that advice given as well - clearing the ducts and so forth. And that makes sense. We sort of believed it, and as I mentioned above, he was ejaculating daily, but now we're wondering.

Perhaps like most things we're going to have to experiment and see what level of activity (frequency) he can do best with. Hopefully too, I'll get more input and feedback from others. Thank you again.
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Re: BPH and frequency questions

Postby SquarePants » Tue May 07, 2013 9:39 am

For me, infrequent ejaculations have a tendency to lead to infections. Ejaculations alone only help a little in clearing up mild infections. Prostate massage combined with ejaculation is much more effective in clearing up mild or serious infections than ejaculation alone. For me, the best treatment for an infection includes (massage + ejaculation) 3-5 times over a week. I also have a vibrating massager as well as an aneros. I tend to use one during one massage, and then switch to the other for another night’s massage. It seems like they compliment each other, and it helps to make sure that the whole prostate is properly massaged.

With a more serious infection, I can actually feel burning in the urethra after a post-massage ejaculation. Without a massage, I typically won't feel the burning. I’ve read that prostatic fluid is alkaline, and that the fluid is more alkaline during an infection. I suspect that the burning is due to in increased alkalinity. If this is true, then it would make sense that we’d want to have an ejaculation to get rid of the infectious fluid.

I’ve also read that some people think that massaging after an ejaculation would be more beneficial, with the belief that the non-infectious fluid would have been expelled, and the pressure would be more concentrated on the trapped fluid. That sounds plausible, so I often will continue some massaging immediately after the ejaculation.

I have read where some men have experienced bleeding after a prostate massage. I have never experienced anything like that.

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Re: BPH and frequency questions

Postby Nvr2Late » Tue May 07, 2013 10:05 am

Thank you again for a detailed reply.

The way DH described it is his perineum is tender, with a slight burning feeling. As far as we can tell no infection - he has no fever and the intensity is just moderate (it's been worse). His usual first line of defense is to soak in a very hot tub for a while. Then massage. He massages a couple times per week regardless of feeling normal or having tenderness.

I will tell him that perhaps massage with ejaculation is worth a try rather than sex with me. Would you think that might be more beneficial to him? Is there a difference?

Another concern I have: he wants to go ahead and pleasure me even on his "off nights". He knows I'm on TRT and so my libido is way up there - in addition of course to the heightened drive of being newly married :oops: Now, it seems selfish of me to let him do this since I would assume that if he gets excited and has no release it's NOT good for his prostate. Would you concur?

I feel like we're walking on eggshells here :(
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Re: BPH and frequency questions

Postby SquarePants » Tue May 07, 2013 1:56 pm

I have a hard time imagining getting a prostate massage without an ejaculation afterwards.

Another thing to consider: Massaging the prostate with with an erection is very different from a massage without an erection. With an erection, the prostate can be pressed firmly against the hard penile tissue inside the body. Without an erection, the material behind the prostate is very squishy, so it's harder to firmly massage it. I usually try to do some massaging while unaroused, followed by some massage while arouse. It also feels REALLY good to be massaged while aroused.

I think that I have only experienced light fever only once. My primary symptom is discomfort and trouble urinating. The discomfort include a feeling like my prostate has been replaced by a tennis ball, and some testicle pain.

You two could also include a massage followed by having sex with you. Maybe that would give you be best of both worlds.

By the way, what hormones are included in your HRT?

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Re: BPH and frequency questions

Postby Nvr2Late » Tue May 07, 2013 7:53 pm

By the way, what hormones are included in your HRT?
I get a pellet containing testosterone and progesterone, along with anastrozole.

Again, I thank you for your help. I'll talk to him tonight about your suggestion.
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Re: BPH and frequency questions

Postby Nvr2Late » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:02 pm

Updating and in need of maybe a bit more guidance.

He's got a problem again. Now, shortly after that last post, we tried me helping with an internal massage (with Helix in place) and he finally had what felt something similar to orgasm but with no ejaculation, only a bit of clear fluid. That fluid continued to leak for a few minutes afterward. He wasn't crazy about the experience, and we only did it once.

Then the other night when he began feeling the symptoms of inflammation starting up again (we were having almost-daily sex for about 2 weeks), we talked again about massaging (which he's slacked off on) and my helping. I told him about your post, Spongebob and your recommendations and we tried both an external massage Tues night followed by an internal massage with me helping (very gentle manual and some oral stimulation) again yesterday. Yesterday he reported a great deal of very intense sensation and pleasure. He again had some sort of climax with nothing more than a small dribble of clear fluid. He said it wasn't like a real orgasm but was extremely intense and "left him feeling drained".

I'm not sure if we're doing it right. Any thoughts?
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Re: BPH and frequency questions

Postby SquarePants » Thu Jun 06, 2013 3:52 pm

Was this pseudo-orgasm without ejaculation done with or without penile stimulation? Some people are able have an orgasm with the aneros without an ejaculation. It’s supposed to be pleasurable, but it may not be useful for treating a prostate infection. I’ve never been able to do that.

I have found that at least some of my orgasms while using an aneros (with penile stimulation) don’t produce much semen. It’s almost as if the device is closing off a value by pressing on it. Maybe his BHP is inhibiting ejaculation, and the aneros is making is worse while pressing on the prostate. You might try making sure that the massager isn’t pressing against the prostate during ejaculation. Maybe you could grab the aneros and aim it downward, or remove it completely immediately before orgasm. You also might try a hand held massager so that it can be easily controlled during orgasm. I have an aneros as well as a device that looks like the “Dr. Joel Waterproof Personal Vibrating Prostate Massager” (do a search on Amazon). The vibrations from the motor seem helpful with the massage. With this device, I can easily reduce pressure during orgasm. I can also pulse pressure against the prostate during orgasm without inhibiting ejaculation. I can then get a bit more ejaculate out by pulsing pressure and massaging immediately after orgasm.

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Re: BPH and frequency questions

Postby firefly » Thu Jun 06, 2013 7:13 pm

My urologist is female. I asked her what to do if I started getting infected, she said "take an antibiotic and milk the prostate once it gets better". "Regular sex should take care of it, but if not, get your wife to give you an internal prostate massage". You have to keep and get the old semen out, or it stagnates like water in a pond. Just thought that may help.
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Re: BPH and frequency questions

Postby Nvr2Late » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:48 am

Was this pseudo-orgasm without ejaculation done with or without penile stimulation? Some people are able have an orgasm with the aneros without an ejaculation.
WITH stimulation - manual and oral. He had some sort of climax but there was no emission and he said it didn't feel like a normal orgasm.

I have found that at least some of my orgasms while using an aneros (with penile stimulation) don’t produce much semen. It’s almost as if the device is closing off a value by pressing on it. Maybe his BHP is inhibiting ejaculation, and the aneros is making is worse while pressing on the prostate.
That has been our experience as well. Basically a dry almost-orgasm. Very intense, he says, but not like a normal orgasm. It's definitely a whole difference experience for him with the Helix in place.

You might try making sure that the massager isn’t pressing against the prostate during ejaculation. Maybe you could grab the aneros and aim it downward, or remove it completely immediately before orgasm.
I'll mention that. He's been in control of the Helix in past sessions but I can mention this to him.

You also might try a hand held massager so that it can be easily controlled during orgasm.
We've been using the Magic Wand on him as an external massager, but without any penile stimulation at all. He doesn't get an erection while using it, although he reports that it feels "pretty good" while he's using it.

I will discuss your other comments and/or let him read them (so far I'm just the go-between) and see what he says.

We also discussed my doing an internal prostate massage using my fingers. We've found a good site that describes in detail the movements I would use, etc. He's open to it. Up til recently he wasn't all that enthusiastic about all this prostate massage stuff, but adding my participation has made a big difference and our last experience turned out VERY pleasurable for him so that should encourage more frequent massages.

Again, Spongebob, thanks for your help and sharing, it's very much appreciated :D
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Re: BPH and frequency questions

Postby Nvr2Late » Mon Jun 10, 2013 11:54 am

firefly wrote:My urologist is female. I asked her what to do if I started getting infected, she said "take an antibiotic and milk the prostate once it gets better". "Regular sex should take care of it, but if not, get your wife to give you an internal prostate massage". You have to keep and get the old semen out, or it stagnates like water in a pond. Just thought that may help.
I bet you guys love a female urologist, right? :wink: DH's urologist is a woman, too.

HER advice was "no sex for 2 weeks" and put him on Cipro for 2 weeks. We do have frequent intercourse when he's not feeling sick - just about daily. So I can't imagine his prostate getting too bogged down, but I'm still learning, too!
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Re: BPH and frequency questions

Postby SquarePants » Tue Jun 11, 2013 12:39 pm

Nvr2Late wrote:We do have frequent intercourse when he's not feeling sick - just about daily. So I can't imagine his prostate getting too bogged down, but I'm still learning, too!

The theory is that clogged ducts can trap some of the prostatic fluid so that it is not released during ejaculation. Therefore, no matter how often you have sex, the fluid in those pockets is never released and becomes stagnant. Massaging the prostate may force fluid out of those pockets (or at least unclog the ducts), so that the fluid is released with a subsequent ejaculation. This theory is consistent with how my prostate seems to work. I’m sure that there are some doctors that agree and some that disagree with this.

Years ago, I read about a doctor in the Philippines who developed a protocol for treating stubborn prostate infections. The patients typically complained about strong antibiotic treatments that gave temporary improvements at best. He had his patients lie face down, and he used a gloved finger to firmly roll inward over the prostate. The patients were also taking antibiotics as part of his treatment.

Nvr2Late wrote:
You also might try a hand held massager so that it can be easily controlled during orgasm.
We've been using the Magic Wand on him as an external massager, but without any penile stimulation at all. He doesn't get an erection while using it, although he reports that it feels "pretty good" while he's using it

The internal vibrating massager that described in a previous post works extremely well. The tilted egg at the tip is able to deliver vibrations directly to the prostate. It seems to be effective in treatment, but is also extremely pleasurable, especially while aroused. The internal vibrations do things that the Aneros can’t do. Also, you can massage all around the general area that is inaccessible with the Aneros; a little deeper and on the sides. Sometimes, it seems like the Aneros alone is perfectly fine in eliminating an early stage infection. Other times, it seems like the hand-held internal vibrator works best.

I suspect that massaging during an erection is important in order to for the massage to be most effective. Are you/he able to see any discharge from the massage?

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Re: BPH and frequency questions

Postby Nvr2Late » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:30 pm

I suspect that massaging during an erection is important in order to for the massage to be most effective. Are you/he able to see any discharge from the massage?
Not much, if any.
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Re: BPH and frequency questions

Postby SquarePants » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:45 pm

Nvr2Late wrote:
I suspect that massaging during an erection is important in order to for the massage to be most effective. Are you/he able to see any discharge from the massage?
Not much, if any.

At most, I only get a one to three drops. However, even if I see a drop or two of milky white fluid during the massage (before ejaculation), it generally means a good massage. This is different from the clear preejaculatory fluid that occurs from simply being aroused. I've read that some people claim to "milk" lots of fluid from massage alone, but that's never happened to me.

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Re: BPH and frequency questions

Postby Nvr2Late » Tue Jun 11, 2013 1:56 pm

All we've seen to date is clear fluid. I assumed that this was seminal fluid and that's what we wanted. I think of white fluid as being semen. Am I wrong?
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Re: BPH and frequency questions

Postby SquarePants » Tue Jun 11, 2013 2:44 pm

  • The clear and wonderfully slippery fluid is the pre-ejaculatory fluid from the two Cowper’s glands.
  • Prostatic fluid is milky.
  • The sperm is in the fluid from the seminal vesicles, which are behind the prostate gland.

Semen is a mix of all three of the above.
http://www.mens-health-issues.com/how-to-read-prostatic-fluid-checklist.html

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Re: BPH and frequency questions

Postby Nvr2Late » Thu Jun 13, 2013 4:13 pm

Ah yes, Google is my friend.
Thanks again for your help, Squarepants and BTW we ordered the Dr Joels massager. I'll report back :D
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Re: BPH and frequency questions

Postby Nvr2Late » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:20 pm

Alrighty, time for an update.

We got the Dr. Joels's internal massager. He said it was ok, but we found it difficult to manueuver ( guess we'll mark it on the end so I know it's not rotating away from the correct angle. It was a very slippery experiment, LOL), and haven't used it again. He's gone back to once per week with the Helix and then we decided after I did much research to have me try manual massage of the prostate. So that was yesterday. I don't think he's gonna be eager for a manual massage again any time soon :lol: All things considered at this point, he prefers the Helix but we'll try the Dr Joels a few more times, too.

We know now that we'll only see a few drops of liquid with any method, but at least with the Helix he can maintain an erection and has a sort of climax as I described before. It's very intense.

He gets tender and feels some swelling if we are sexually active 2-3 days in a row. He also has just started on Testosterone replacement therapy (with my doctor) and got his pellets on June 19. The doctor also said he could try switching from Flomax to Cialis daily use since it's also for BPH as well as ED. So that will be the next thing we try. The intermittent ED is still a factor in our lovemaking. He takes a lot of L-arginine and swears by it, but we know that's mostly just a blood flow thing and doesn't do anything for the underlying problem of the enlarged prostate.
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Re: BPH and frequency questions

Postby SquarePants » Wed Jul 03, 2013 12:47 pm

It sounds like his BPH is much worse than mine. Mine is not really noticeable unless I have an infection or I’m taking certain medications, such as antihistamines.

Nvr2Late wrote:We got the Dr. Joels's internal massager. He said it was ok, but we found it difficult to manueuver ( guess we'll mark it on the end so I know it's not rotating away from the correct angle. It was a very slippery experiment, LOL),

Ha, ha, I just remembered that I marked the top side of mine (near the base) with a black sharpie so that I could tell which way the egg is pointing. Otherwise, it’s impossible to tell which way it’s pointing while it’s inside. I try to keep the base of the massager free of lubricant so that the whole thing doesn’t get slippery and hard to hold.

I’ve used mine alone as well as with my wife. When alone, I can hold the base of the massager with one (dry) hand and use the other (lubricated) hand on my penis. With my wife, it seems to work best if I work the massager, and she works her magic on my penis. I’m better at knowing where to press the massager and how hard to press it. Massaging with an erection really seems to promote effective massages.

Where is the tenderness? Is it in the prostate itself, or in or near the testicles? If he is starting testosterone therapy, do you know his estrogen levels? I understand that high estrogen levels can contribute to BPH.


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