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Re: Touching required?

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:19 am
by Hiswifeagain
workerbee wrote:I hope I contribute positively to my DH self worth after 21 years of marriage. I know his affection or lack thereof effects my self worth. I would think it should as we chose each other to spend the rest of our lives together!

How can so much be expected of a spouse but when the word "desire" or "passion" are discussed so many here balk and make excuses?

What makes you qualified to judge what is an excuse and what isn't?

Doesn't scripture teach us that our worth comes from Him who created us? Getting self-worth from anyone but God will leave us less than we were created to be. Depending on a spouse for our self-worth makes them little more than a tool to prop up our sagging sense of self, IMO.

workerbee wrote:Somehow something happened and my body WOULD NOT BE DENIED and WOULD NOT BE DEPRIVED. Sex was REQUIRED & I Had to be satisfied. At that moment or at least that day. I was CRAZY. It was insane and very unlike me. And it was AMAZING!!!

I had my Dr check out and test every hormone level the day of the beginning of my cycle. I expected high this/low that. Notta. Which is VERY unfortunate. VERY VERY UNFORTUNATE. Because my intent was to attempt to duplicate that sensation on demand! That crazy sex starved woman because of a PHYSICAL CARNAL need lasted for only a few months. But it was a gift!

So you recognize it was a gift. A gift is something given by someone to someone else. A gift isn't demanded or commanded. You were given a gift, for whatever reason, that allowed you to experience feeling [physically desirous] all the time, you tried to duplicate it without success and yet you stand in judgment of others who haven't yet received this gift and demand they pursue this gift for themselves or they are being selfish.

workerbee wrote:So there is no real reason a LD spouse cannot desire to desire!

And you know this how?

workerbee wrote:I do.It's in the mind and the heart.
You have to want it and cultivate it.

Oh, I see. You've decided because you can so can everyone else. If it's not working it's because they just don't want it?
workerbee wrote:I wanted my DH to pursue me, desire me, be passionate about me as I am with him.
I told him I was grateful for what we have and that he always tried attending to my needs.

But I wanted the joy of passion and all that Song of Solomon stuff.

I mean no disrespect here, but that's an awful lot of "I"'s there. High desire for sex is not a trait for godliness anymore than low desire is. It seems that many low desire spouses think that having less desire is more spiritual and godly than having high desire. But I think that is also true for high desire spouses. Maybe that's "normal' hubris that makes us see ourselves as more noble than we are.

Workerbee, I know your intentions are good, so please don't take offense to the following. Having high idealistic expectations for your marriage is your choice, but I wish you would stop encouraging others to hold such high expectations of their spouses because it can really breed discontent. You were given a gift. Appreciate that gift and pray for others to also receive such a gift . Please refrain from maligning others by accusing them of making excuses.

Re: Touching required?

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:31 am
by Hiswifeagain
Bigloop, I did read both of the posts. I understand the thread is about touching being required for erection. You brought up the emotional aspect and I was responding to it. I think perhaps this whole sub-thread should be moved to it's own thread, but that's a mod thing.

I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but I went through an almost identical experience to Workerbee. I can very much relate to what she's saying and I don't disagree that it's a beautiful to be given that gift. I also know that we can't demand gifts like that. We don't see the big picture that God sees and we don't understand his timing. We don't know how He's using that spiritual discipline we didn't choose to mold us into His image. To nurse discontent by dwelling on what our spouse should be doing (our opinion of what they should be doing) is not helpful to our marriages. The resentment that has been expressed isn't a healthy thing. We can't strive for better when we're holding onto resentment that it's not already what we want.

Re: Touching required?

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:52 am
by workerbee
HWA, I don't doubt my experience was actually completely unique and it's interesting you had a similar experience.

But the only resentment I'm seeing on this subject is coming from you.

Re: Touching required?

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 7:53 am
by Hiswifeagain
That is funny how we can be in much the same place and see things so differently. I guess it's a good thing to keep in mind that we all "see" things differently.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Re: Touching required?

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 8:33 am
by workerbee
Since the topic is Touching Required and Senior Sex
(I'm just 46 & It's kinda funny posting here but DH is OLD so I guess I'm qualified to discuss Senior Sex! LoL!!!)

As older mature adults, fear and shame should, I think, naturally fall away.
I would think it's a combination of experience of knowing who you are and just being comfortable enough in your own skin.

When I speak of people "holding back from their spouse" it isn't necessarily a LD or HD thing - because the 2 issues can be independent of eachother.
And please don't just assume I am pointing fingers.
My DH is a member here, and while we're growing like crazy, it is generally me striving for more.
He doesn't balk and bristle on this subject matter NOW, but initially it was off-putting
We get comfortable in our ruts.

We are growing together as a couple and we're growing individually at a unique point in life.
Maybe it's easier to challenge yourself when you are older. To see what you allow to hold yourself back.
It's almost always doubt, insecurity and fear and if that's deep inside you then you are never more equipped to resolve these issues than now.

But there really is no other time in a marriage than this stage of life that allows a couple to be smarter and wiser and grow together in a unique way that they previously lacked the capacity as a couple to explore.

And I will be completely honest here.
My time here on earth is limited. Most likey DH has less time left than I.

We chose eachother. He made a commitment to me and that included him giving me his best.
I give him my all....the very essence of me he knows and knows well. I hide nothing.
Sometimes I know there is more to him than he shares and that is why I want more.
Because according to what he and I both understand.....according to God's Word we have our marriage Here and Now, not in heaven.
THAT tears me up.
When we are finally perfect it won't be US anymore.
With that knowledge, that firm belief I CHOSE to know him NOW as intimately as I can.
He chose to be with me so he has a responsibly to me, to us, to our marriage and to HIMSELF to show up.

Touching IS required.

Re: Touching required?

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 9:51 am
by poetess
Workerbee, don't let the perfect be the enemy of the good.

It is good to give one's best to marriage . . . BUT marriage isn't all there is to life. I have an excellent, devoted husband who is better at understanding and loving me than I ever dreamed possible. (I married late in life--I'm a bit older than you--so I had a lot of time to imagine what marriage might look like.) However, my husband also has God-given responsibilities to other people, to his work, church, family, etc. And he has only so much time and energy to go around. To expect him to give 100% at home in a frantic search to grab every moment because we won't be married in eternity is to mean he never has time "off." Never has time to relax. And that's exhausting even reading about it.

Some people have higher desire for sex than other people do. Marriage is still the creation norm. A person with NO desire for sex shouldn't marry, but it's absurd to suggest (for example) that only the top 25% in desire should marry. (That would leave most men single, since most women aren't that high in the charts!) Even limiting it to the top 50% would leave most men single, or would leave 20-year-old men to marry 40-year-old women!

We have a natural range in libido. That is OK. Sometimes our sexual expression will come from a choice to love our spouse rather than from a raging "gotta have him now" desire. Personally, I would hate for that raging libido to be the normal human condition--it's very distracting, it's hard for a single person (and must be even harder for a widow), even for the married person the spouse isn't always available, and ultimately it makes sex into an idol.

It's fine to expect one's spouse to make an effort to be available, but anytime the demand escalates to "he/she can't just be willing, but must actively desire it too" we are asking the impossible, and setting our spouse up for potential failure. Desire isn't something that comes and goes at will.

Re: Touching required?

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:13 pm
by workerbee
bigloop wrote:Did you read her post? Did you read mine? It seems you did not comprehend them if you did. It seems you read them in light of your own experiences and reached the conclusion you wanted to reach so you could tell me how you are correct. I suggest before you try to tell me what to do, you should ask some better questions first. When's the last time you were in my home or bedroom?

I believe this thread is about the need for touching for a man to achieve erection, or am I wrong there as well? I believe workerbee explained how she has been uniquely on both sides of that equation and sees things with more clarity from both sides now. That is unusual and it is unusual for HD person to have a humbling experience that changes their heart in such a way. I believe she explained how she has learned how to change in light of both sides of the situation, as has her husband. I believe she explained how she learned to "bring more to the party", both figuratively and literally, as did her husband. I believe she explained how the thought of "this is all I have to bring" is a fallacy that can be changed. I believe her husband found this truth as well. Seems they both grew. That IS beautiful.

I believe you accurately summed up my entire experience in 2 succinct paragraphs. Everything you posted was completely what I have been trying so very hard to explain but my ability is lacking because I have been so very excited about and frustrated with this subject. You give me too much credit though. I had a glimpse of intimacy and I know it's as much about what I bring to the table as what my spouse brings.

As far as desire - I may lack the physical passion (on demand) that I briefly experienced. But I focus on the memory of it, and I am as much motivated by the emotional intimacy as the physical. Remembering to foster that connection to my DH: That is cultivating desire. Didn't everyone have those pheromones & endorphins at the beginning of their marriage? Wasn't that beautiful? God designed that attraction between man and woman. Is it not good to think on those things? To remember? To delight in each other because it is GOOD. Maybe it's an attitude we have to seek out in ourselves, to fight for. But I believe it can be as simple as making a conscious decision.

Part of marriage is being a good steward of our lives together. Every facet. Love is a decision. You can coast along and check off the boxes, but no one got married to spend their life on their loved ones "to do" list. I'm not sure what all we each will account for at the bema. Will a humble meek heart be enough? Likely so. Christ sure willingly lay down his life for mine. If there's a metaphor within marriage....I will approach it with all the zeal and enthusiasm it deserves.

And I think a couple of times a week sharing your body, soul, and mind isn't EXHAUSTED it's EXHILARATING. If it seems like drudgery and the concept is exhausting just thinking about then something else is missing. Maybe there's accounting at the bema for stewardship in marriage and maybe not. It shouldn't matter if you share the best of yourselves with one another.

Re: Touching required?

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:33 pm
by SeekingChange
I know that this has little to do with the original topic, but to address what's come up.
workerbee wrote:And I think a couple of times a week sharing your body, soul, and mind isn't EXHAUSTED it's EXHILARATING.
If it seems like drudgery and the concept is exhausting just thinking about then something else is missing.

Maybe there's accounting at the bema for stewardship in marriage and maybe not.
It shouldn't matter if you share the best of yourselves with one another.

A couple of times a week....what about daily? Do you still have the same enthusiasm and exhilaration? What about after a bad day or week with 4 kids you have under your care 24/7? Can "sharing the best" sometimes just be "I'm worn out and exhausted, but I love you, here I am."?

Re: Touching required?

Posted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:37 pm
by workerbee
Well of course! It's not always going to be mutually passionate & sometimes it is about being generous, meeting a need or just connecting.