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BEST OF TMB-- The best posts from around the forum!

The best posts, going way back!
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Re: BEST OF TMB-- The best posts from around the forum!

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From Kilarin giving a balanced and Biblical view on teaching our children about sex in the thread -

For Parents: What Age Do You Talk About Sex With Your Kids

Kilarin wrote:Satan is getting his view of sex out to our children. It's in the music they listen to, the video games they play, the shows they watch on TV, and it's constantly surrounding them whenever they are on the internet.

You may be trying to protect your children from these influences, But Satan's views about sex are broadcast to your kids on billboards as you drive down the street, they see it advertised on the clothing worn by people they pass in the store, and they hear it from their friends and peers. No matter how carefully you think you have isolated them, the odds are that your kids have gotten a full dose of what Satan wants them to hear about how sex should work.

I think God's side should get equal time.

God invented sex. Sex is private, but it is NOT shameful. We should be no more ashamed to tell our children about God's rules about sex than we should be to tell them about God's rules about theft or loving your neighbor.

And it is more important now than ever that they get this information at a young age. Before the days of the internet, the average age at which children were first exposed to pornography was 11. That number is scary all by itself, but that was in the good old days. Things are worse now. Now, the average age at which our children are first exposed to pornography is 8 years old. EIGHT years old, and the porn they can run into now is far worse and even more degrading than the old playboy centerfolds.

Now, more than ever, our children need to understand God's plan for sex, and they need to understand it at a young age so that when Satan confronts them with these issues, and he WILL, they will have the knowledge and tools they need in order to make a GOOD decision, the right decisions that will protect them now, and in the future.

My son is 17 now, but when he was just a tiny tot my wife and I were quite blunt with him about WHY he is to knock and wait for permission before he enters Mommy and Daddy's bedroom. We might be having sex. The door should be locked in that case, but accidents happen, and all parties concerned will be happier if he knocks. :) With this rule he learned several things:
1: Mommy and Daddy HAVE sex, and that's not only ok for married people to do, it's GOOD.
2: Sex isn't wrong, but it IS private. It's inappropriate (and rude) to watch others having sex.

We've made certain that our son has accurate and factual information about the specifics of sex and sexuality from an early age. He needs to understand sexuality well enough to realize that it is inappropriate for anyone else to be touching his genitals. And he needs to know WHY it's inappropriate. We watch over him closely, but you can never be with your child 100% of the time. If my son was approached by another kid, or worse yet by an adult, who wants to play "doctor", his BEST defense is accurate information. It's much harder to trick someone into doing something wrong when the victim understands what you are doing.

Back when he was 8 he came into my office and caught me with his Mommy snuggling in my lap. There was no horrified look on his face, no panic or shock. He gave a polite, "Oh, excuse me", and backed out.

I called out "The door wasn't shut, and we're just snuggling". Whereupon he said, "Oh! alright then!" and came running back in with a big grin on his face and jumped on top of both of us. Ooof! So he could get his share of the hugging.

It seems to me that that is a healthy respect for a married couples need for privacy, without it evolving into a prurient interest in the details of his parents love life. He understands that married couples have sex, that they ENJOY it, that God meant for them to enjoy it, and that it's something meant to be strictly between them, and not to involve anyone else. And now that he is a teenager, right on the edge of adulthood, I HOPE that's an attitude that will help lead him safely through dating and on into a happy married love life himself some day.

Prov 22:6 Train up a child in the way he should go: and when he is old, he will not depart from it.

Applies JUST as much to sex, as it does to any other aspect of the Christian life. Our kids NEED accurate and Godly information about sex, and parents and church should NOT be ashamed to discuss sex around them.
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Exegesis of 1 Cor 7, 1 Corinthians 7

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Job29Man wrote:We talk a lot about 1 Cor 7. This thread by Notaugustine provides a brilliant exegesis and follow-up discussion!

1 Cor 7 is the passage that speaks about not being in charge of your own body, but your mate is in charge of your body. It seems to be the pivot around which MANY heartbreaking disagreements in marriage occur.
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Re: BEST OF TMB-- The best posts from around the forum!

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From "What is he thinking"
viewtopic.php?f=15&t=66948&start=100

Posting this here to preserve Leah's story. I think we all can learn something from her story. Thanks for taking the time to type all this out, Leah. :)


Leah wrote:Sorry, folks. I have a full time job and I have just finished an intense 9-hour day.

Let me give a thumbnail sketch:

We never had a computer in our home for a long time. We actually did fine without one because we didn't need one. There was no such thing as a smart phone. Finally when our dd was taking some college courses, we needed a computer with internet. It was a useful tool, but it wasn't long before Jake got stressed about a major life issue and sought out porn. That was the beginning of a long spiral into marriage purgatory.

We were not a high sex couple. Jake pretty much controlled the frequency, and he got tired of the nagging about once a quarter. My sex drive is very consistent, and it was a struggle. Then I found the porn. I can't say I handled it well, but I chalk that up to a lot of naivete and a lot of bad teaching about submissive wives. I don't think there was a lot of literature on sex loving wives and husbands addicted to porn. Nobody believed it. My pastor said, "Leah, a man does not turn down sex with his wife. You must be doing something wrong."

***fast forward about two years***

I can't say I was doing anything wrong. I read all the books. I was sexy. I kept a very clean house. I cooked good meals. I was trim and well groomed. I was doing all the right things, yet my husband wanted the porn more than he wanted me. This really was not supposed to happen to Christian women. One day I pulled a good friend aside and said, "I need someone to look me in the eye and know what I'm going through." She listened and hugged me. She didn't offer any advice, but I got a clue that day about what a relief it was to tell the secret.

That went on for a long time. Years. Then I found TMB and people said, "Leah you will get through this. Get some help." I whined and talked and tried to jump through hoops and make it all right. "Leah, you won't get through this unless you get some help." I thought I knew better and kept talking and griping and whining. "Leah, we can't support you unless you get some help." It was a gentle, subtle way of saying I needed to get some help or accept my marriage as it was. It was time to stop talking and do something.

I stopped nagging Jake and the good people here and got some help. I went to an SAnon meeting. I participated in the readings, but I determined not to share for several weeks. One week the time felt right and I shared. I could see from the looks on people's faces that I was not alone in my experience and had come to the right place. I kept on going. I went to one or two meetings every week. I learned more and learned how to express myself in a healthy way. Then came Boundaries and a Boundaries group. And some counseling. I was really not seeing truth very well, but what I learned is that a lot of the pain I felt had very little to do with Jake or even my alcoholic dad. It had everything to do with my harsh, codependent mother. It came as quite a shock. Anyway, it took me about eighteen monts to get to the bottom of that before I began to heal. I was talking and processing in SAnon and Boundaries group. I was seeing how unhealthy I was. Slowly, I began to untangle the strings and I saw how to be my own separate self, how not to feel like I was a failure because of Jake's sin, and how to respond in a mature, healthy, adult way. That went on for about another eighteen months. I was fully immersed in healing.

One day I came home from work and went into the bathroom to clean up. On the counter was a wad of paper towels. The smell was unmistakable. I politely called Jake into the bathroom and said, "Jake, what is this?" I saw the look of bewilderment come over his face, and he responded with the same feigned innocence he used before. He tried to lie his way out of it. I lost it. "What is wrong with you? I have been a loving and faithful wife for nearly thirty years and this is what you do?" I was about to strip a gear. I backed him into the bedroom poking his chest. He fell back on the bed and we just stared at each other for a minute. Poking him in the chest, my voice barely audible, I said, "You have thirty days to talk to a counselor. If you don't, you will be talking to an attorney. I mean it." Then I turned on my heel and went to shower.

Jake decided I really meant it and we were sitting in a counselor's office within a week. I was not invited back to their sessions for about four months. Jake never talked to me about what he experienced in those sessions, but the truth took hold of him. It was still about another two years before things really turned around, but at some point in 2010, I wrote a couple of friends and I had to admit that something had really changed.

So now it is 2016 and life with Jake is good. We are not perfect people, but we talk to each other in healthy, adult ways.

The short version of what I learned during those years would be:

1. My life was unmanageable, and this was about the best thing I could learn. I was unhealthy, and I could not be healthy as long as I was codependent.

2. It was not my job to understand, figure out, or fix Jake. From the very tiny bit he shared with me, most of his angst had to do with his...wait for it....alcoholic father and codependent mother. This was something Jake needed to figure out on his own and understand before he could heal from it. He had no idea what his problem was. I was willing to understand and care about him, but he had to understand himself first. It was not anything I could fix.

3. I had a lot of growth and healing to do on my own. My counselor was a tiny, feminine woman. She would listen and then she would say, "Leah, back up to the thing you said about....." It was then I understood that the person who should be the obvious problem was not as big a problem as another person.

4. It is possible to go through a day and not obsess about what Jake was doing. It felt good the first time that happened. It felt better the next time it happened.

5. My husband has lost a lot of fear in the marriage bed, and I have gained a lot of trust. I used to think I was very generous because I did everything Jake wanted to do. I wasn't so generous, because I was holding back the trust I needed to do everything I wanted to do.

6. It is very important not to go postal when someone sins, but it is also very important to see it as sin sickness. It requires confession, repentance, and healing. Sin will never end as long as I give it too soft a place to land.

7. God sees the action and the heart. He reveals sin. One night at church (very big church where we hid well), the pastor was praying, and he said, "God is seeing a man who used pornography before he came to church." I could barely breathe. Out of the corner of my eye, I saw the color drain from Jake's face. He climbed over the seat and went for prayer. Up until that point, Jake was a man who would never admit anything, and is generally unmoved by public worship. I think that was kind of the beginning of the end for porn in our marriage. It was still another year or so before he got serious about it, but there you go.




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Marriage Bed Vows

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In the "first night sex" thread, » Wed Aug 24, 2016 12:42 am

Girliegirl511 is in her 20s, her husband in his 40s. He was a widower. Before they married they worked together to create these "Marriage Bed Vows" that IMO are inspirational! I think ALL engaged couples would do well to create their own such vows and keep them.

BTW, it is NEVER too late to adopt such Marriage Bed Vows.

girliegirl511 wrote:Because DH was a widower, he had more insight on the marriage bed. And my posts before you can see that I was nervous about being compared to his 1st wife. All of those fears disappeared through prayer, counseling and DH being sensitive. So we decided to write our own marriage bed vows, that we read on our wedding night. Some are specific some, some are general.

They go something like this:

I promise to never refuse(Barring any major medical problems/concerns. There was 1 week in our 6 month of marriage that a nerve in my back was pinched, so I was on narcotics, muscle relaxers & complete bedrest. 1 week DH had the flu, delivery after pregnancy ect...)
I promise to always be open to anything DH/DW suggests
I promise to always be open with DH/DW if an attraction to someone begins(excluding jokes)
I promise to never withhold sex during an argument
I promise when together to always sleep in the same bed, even if we're angry with the other(There have been 2 big arguments that have been resolved just b/c of going to bed with each other. No sex because we're still upset but the issue is resolved)
I promise to go to bed if DH/DW goes to bed first [i](Finish the task and don't start something else..women this will be hard!)
I promise to never use sex as a reward (There is teasing, i.e. DH will finish something on his honey do list and say 'What's my reward/payment' but to us that's flirting and verbal foreplay)
I promise to always put DH/DW first before all others
I promise to always put DH/DW first before our children(co-sleeping ends after baby can sleep longer than 3 hours)
I promise to always stand by DH/DW before our families
I promise to always treat our marriage bed sacred and holy
I promise to always communicate what I like and don't like
I promise to never hold back
I promise to always be open to God's direction with children
I promise to always be open and honest with our children about sex
I promise to always teach our children that our bedroom is off limits when door is closed
I promise to never negatively discuss our sex life with anyone except a counselor and___________________(We each picked 1 person, a female and male mentor. My mentor helped me tremendously before my wedding night.)
I promise to keep our bedroom a safe & relaxing environment(We chose to deep clean our room 2x week, to maintain an inviting place. Does it always happen? No, but it's pretty darn close...98.9% of the time)
I promise to pray together 1x week (We come together in our bed and pray for our marriage bed)


Hopefully this helps someone! Most of them are pretty practical and things most people already do. But we wanted them written out and framed. We had our marriage vows that we said during our ceremony hung over our bed. I don't want to put down DH's 1st wife, but DH has read this and given my permission to explain. Their children were put 1st in their marriage and their sex life wasn't a priority, DH wanted to change that in our marriage.

I want to explain the children and sex one. Because DH's sons are older we added this one. They needed to know that their Dad loves me and isn't afraid to show it. And that sex is a beautiful part of marriage, that shouldn't be talked about like it's a bad thing...which is what our parents did. Now do we explicitly make out in front of them? No. But we don't hide or feel embarrassed when they do catch us in the kitchen.
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The Pill, HBC, libido killer for 15% of women

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In the "I need help!" thread. which focused on the TOTAL and sudden loss of desire by a newlywed wife after one year. The discussion turned largely to the role of Hormonal Birth Control (HBC) on sexual desire. Unfulfilled found an article by Dr. Mercola that reviewed some research on this.

Unfulfilled wrote:...back to the whole pill and hormones. Here is an article that came today. It is from the Dr. Mercola site. Some say he is great, some say he is "out there" so take it for what it is worth. But it links to medical studies linking long term depression and killing of libido to "the pill".

Here is the site and a direct quote from the article relative to this previous discussion.http://articles.mercola.com/sites/articles/archive/2005/06/14/contraceptives-libido.aspx

Quote:

The Pill May Be a Libido Killer

About 15 percent of women taking oral contraceptives report a decrease in libido, likely because they lower levels of sex hormones, including testosterone. One study also found seven times the amount of the libido-killing sex hormone binding globulin (SHBG) was present in women who took oral contraceptives compared to women who never used the pill.

Even though SHBG levels declined in women who had stopped taking the pill, they still remained three to four times higher than they were in women with no history of using oral contraceptives, which suggests oral contraceptives may kill a woman's libido for the long-term.

Researchers concluded:
"Long-term sexual, metabolic, and mental health consequences might result as a consequence of chronic SHBG elevation [in women who take, or have taken, oral contraceptives]."


(emphases mine --Job29Man)
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Wife always enjoys but always avoids sex.

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I'm including this discussion because it is quite common on TMB. The sheer despondency and despair in TJW's "voice" comes through loudly. It needs to be noted. I've read men who spoke of wanting to commit suicide because of their wives refusing them sex, and others (like tjw) have resorted to the use of mood-altering drugs to make them not want to care about sex, which has the effect also of making them not care about anything, like the emotional walking-dead.

A New Member wrote:Hello. My wife and I have been married for nearly 15 years. We have 3 children, and we find it hard to get enough time for intimacy. My drive is much stronger than hers, so often times at night she is happy to go to sleep rather than have sex. However, when we do have sex, an average of once per week, she orgasms nearly every time. So I'm confused why there is a lot of resistance, when she enjoys it very much. We have argued about it many times, and I need to find an outlet for my drive when she rejects me in bed. I should say that I often spend 20 minutes or more trying to pursuade her, only to give up trying. Should I just masturbate in bed and fantasize about my wife?

Thanks for any helpful advice you could give. I'm glad I found this site and forum for Christian couples, because you can get bad advice from others who are not believers.



tjw wrote:There sure is quite a lot of discussion about this subject on here.
It has been said in other threads on here that some women don't actually "want" sex until it begins. I could describe my own marriage like this, too, except we have had sex about 3 times in the last 2 years. When we actually do have it, she orgasms every time also and really seems to like it.

I gave up and started taking Zoloft about 4 years ago. My feelings were just being hurt every couple of days because of her rejection. The zoloft is not exactly the best solution because it makes me "not care" about anything, but it enables me to live here at a low-self-esteem level. I can remain somewhat functional in my work and my duties, although it has stripped me of passion about anything. But I can live with the overwhelmingly hurtful idea that my wife is "just not that in to me", which I think is the basic problem in my own marriage. That subject is also well covered here in other threads. It seems that lots of women married men who they were not sexually attracted to, because the man had other good traits, good provider, sincere christian, good father, etc, and thought that they would "learn" to be attracted. It didn't happen.

I do masturbate, although it isn't frequently due to the drugs. I protect my heart and mind from lusting after other women, and that is made a lot easier to accomplish. Better living through chemistry.
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Re: BEST OF TMB-- The best posts from around the forum!

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In the discussion about "Frustrated with Double Standards, No Sex = No Love" which asked the question "Is there a double standard in society (and maybe the Church) where we let women off the hook for sexual refusal, but not men?"

ledgemoor wrote:Re: Conversations and sex
by ledgemoor » Tue Nov 29, 2016 9:54 am

Ok, a few rushed closing comments.

I want to comment on the discussion in this thread about the female need for conversation. And I cringed when someone said that sex is the only benefit a man gets from marriage.

I propose that conversation is a way of being sexual, and something that females are usually better at than we men are. What attracted us to our wives in the first place? Her body for sure. But not just her body. Her as a whole person. Looking back at my relationship with the friend that became my wife, sure her body was a perfect 10 back in the day, but I didn't get that need-to-get-into-her-pants feeling until I got to know her, and know her well.

We didn't date our wives just because it would hopefully eventually lead to marriage and sex. We also dated them because we enjoyed their company. It is so important to keep dating after you're married. We do it a lot, and need to do it more. But I tell DW that I was a perfect gentleman for 23 years. But now that I'm married, when I go out on a date, I EXPECT SEX :lol:.

We went on a vision retreat last year, and had the best sex ever. We didn't try anything new or anything like that. It was because we were the most open we had been with each other since before we were married and were just friends. So guys, when your wife wants to talk, do it. A lot of it will be trivial day-to-day stuff that really doesn't need rehashing, but just listen and participate. You will then be in a better position to steer towards deeper and more intimate conversation.

-----

I said before that men have a real need to be needed sexually. We LIKE foreplay and do not see any of it as an obligation or duty. (These words have negative connotations that are not correct, BTW). I think women have this need too, but it is not as evident. When DW gets to kavetching about how often I want sex, I point out that there are dear, beautiful women on TMB whose husbands are not interested in them sexually. I invite her to read the agony in their posts. I point out that I spare no effort to please her when she wants it, and I ENJOY doing that and NEED to do that, even though I may not be in the mood and may not have an orgasm. Is having sex, even when your not in the mood, really that unpleasant? She admits that yes, she does enjoy the affection and seeing my response.

The problem is that most women are never deprived of sex. Their husband is always ready and willing whenever they are and even when they aren't. My bout with low testosterone brought DW to a better understanding of what it's like not to be needed sexually.

------

TJW, on your wife's not appreciating you, what you earn, etc. etc. Every man's dilemma. For too long I failed to discuss things that needed to be discussed for fear of upsetting my wife. But a female friend helped me understand that women do not like weak men. Read any romance novel. The man is always assertive. The woman gets upset about it, but she still falls for him. I'm staring age 60 in the face, and don't have forever to bide my time on this. So now, I diplomatically and lovingly say what needs to be said. I figure she'll either get over it or she won't. Either way I am better off. But so far she HAS gotten over it, and our marriage the best it has ever been.

---------
Hormones: What Job said about men and testosterone also applies to women. Just because the GP doctor says she is "normal" doesn't mean she is. Research it for yourself. Start a new thread or PM me and tell me your wife's testosterone reading. I can help you determine how "normal" she really is. As Job said, normal for a given person can only be determined experimentally. If she has low libido and other symptoms of low testosterone, and if you give her testosterone and she gets better, she has low testosterone regardless of what the numbers say. Lab tests are a tool in determining her hormonal health, but just a tool, not the solution. You really need to see a bHRT/Life Extension doctor who aims for optimal hormonal health, not just "normal".

And it is possible that there are other causes of low or no libido.
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Re: BEST OF TMB-- The best posts from around the forum!

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From that same thread (Frustrated with Double Standards. No Sex = No love)

Sunny-dee did an excellent job of posting why "sex is the only part of marriage that is important to me" is a real turn-off for a wife. Here is some of the give-and-take--an excellent perspective for men and women to understand each other's perspectives. This is a condensation of several posts.

be64 wrote:"Ledgemoor, while it's true that sex isn't the only benefit a man gets from marriage, sex is the only thing a man can't get without marriage. Although I think most would not approve of such a thing, technically a man and woman could live together and do everything a married couple does except have nudity and sex (and children). They could even sleep in the same bed if there was no physical contact or nudity so in that regard the only thing that I can see would be added by marriage is the sexual relationship. Can you name another benefit the man in my example would gain by being married?"


Sunny-dee wrote:Actually, this is a really unfair and unrealistic comparison. Marriage is set apart by the fact it is sexual, but that is not the only part of it. Marriage is a lifetime commitment. Someone there, supporting you and caring for you (figuratively and literally) in any state, for a lifetime. There is no other relationship, including parent-child, that has that degree of devotion.

If you set up this false comparison -- like, what if you had someone who shared all financial and household burdens, who was there to listen to you, who would take care of you when you're old, who you take vacations with and who makes you a cup of coffee in the morning, and is in every way an attentive spouse. Except there is no relationship, not even friendship, that offers that degree of personal intimacy.

I get that sex is important. I get that sex is one of the things that differentiates marriage from any other relationship. I get all this as a wife to a low-drive, gatekeeping husband. But marriage is more than just bumping uglies. If that is literally the only thing that defines marriage to you, you have an incomplete view of what a relationship is.


be64 wrote:"sunny-dee, I see nothing in your example that couldn't be done by my theoretical couple living together without marriage or sex. Basically what I'm saying is that if a couple isn't having sex then they are living like my theoretical couple.

"I realize there is the ocasional low drive husband, but I think most women don't have a clue as to how important sex is for a man. A woman can just say not now I'm not in the mood as though it's no big deal but most men I know are always in the mood and would drop everything for sex at any moment. Men like me think about sex every few minutes of every waking moment. My wife and I make love at least every other day but still as soon as we are finished I'm thinking about how long it's going to be before I get to do it again. I think most women are not like me. I think most women do not understand the burning need for sexual release that many men have."


Sunny-dee wrote:be64 my response is that your theoretical is so impossible that it's not a realistic example. You are literally taking the other benefits of marriage -- benefits that are only possible within a marriage -- and then hand-waving and saying, "let's assume I can get those elsewhere. So, what's my reason for getting married now?"

And to be perfectly blunt, you're objectifying women. The way you're stating it, the actual relationship is valueless and the only thing worth anything is getting a little butter on your muffin. Literally everything else -- a home, companionship, a partner in Christ, a caretaker, children, shared experiences -- is completely nothing. The only reason you're in marriage is free, easy, and frequent access to sex. And she better act like she likes it, not just "duty sex."

How about this, what if your wife said -- and defended, repeatedly on this message board -- that the only reason she married you was for money. She is disappointed in you because you don't make as much as her friends' husbands and it would just be so much better for her if she had never even gotten married because you are so rotten at giving her money, as much as she wants. And the only reason any woman should ever marry is for money; that's the only thing they get out of a marriage. Everything else they can get elsewhere and better. And, seriously, like as soon as you deposit a paycheck, she already has it spent and is planning on how to spend the next one, and how can you not understand how important money is to her?????

How motivated would you feel to provide for your wife? Would you feel loved? Would you even feel like your marriage had value?


be64 wrote:Sunny-dee I guess to combine our analogies I will say that because of my paycheck my wife has more money than anyone she knows and I get more sex than anyone I know so I guess we should both be satisfied."
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Wife is responsible to "know herself"

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In the thread "Wanna start something? Job29Man posted that the wife is at least as obligated to understand her own sexuality and arousal as is her husband. Seeking Perspective"s response fleshes this out. Her concluding sentence (emphasis mine) is timeless wisdom.

by seeking perspective » Thu Dec 22, 2016 9:52 pm

Job29Man wrote:IMHO if a man is making a genuine, and sincere effort to live with his wife in an understanding way, and is above reproach in the fathering, providing, protecting, being a sensitive lover, and helping the wife as needed departments, then he has done most of what he needs to do. After that he need not agonize over figuring out the mysterious formula of "what is it going to take to get her in the mood? To get her receptive to sex?" After that a LARGE part of the responsibility of figuring out the Woman Code belongs to the woman.



Seeking Perspective wrote: I completely agree. Although there are some things a husband can and should do to help foster an environment within which she can experience desire, a wife needs to be willing to nurture desire in order to be receptive to his efforts. Her willingness is a necessary factor. That long list I posted from the study includes a whole lot of things a woman can work on for herself. (I wrote about some of this recently here.)

Growing in sexual intimacy required me to understand my own sexual desire and responsiveness. It also required me to accept that my husband's desire works differently--and is good as it is. The fact that he is a linear-thinking, goal-oriented, problem-solving guy is the very thing that helps me stay focused during sex. If we did things my way, we'd be meandering around without ever landing anywhere. Between the two of us and the different ways desire works in us, we've learned to enjoy both the journey and the destination.

A good reminder for both spouses is this: measuring a spouse's sexual desire cannot be done using the measuring stick of one's own sexuality.
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Re: BEST OF TMB-- The best posts from around the forum!

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In response to the posted question by Job29Man on the topic: Does emotion follow obedience? Or vica versa?

Job29Man wrote:But I still am reluctant to spend much effort on laying out all the caveats that people want in every thread. Not gonna do it. It's just how I roll. I'm German heritage, blunt, frustrated by the need to say anything twice. I may be annoying in writing, and it may be hard to believe, but most people seem to enjoy me in person. :lol:


The Twit wrote:I always knew there was something that struck a common bond with me. Being of German decent and being an engineer I detest unneeded redundancy. (Yes there needs to be back up systems if an item fails.) I also am one who believes once something is learned and mastered there is little need to go back and relearn unless there is a major change in the subject matter. As a part of that I do not understand the whole concept of constantly wooing a woman when you have already married her. The goal of wooing is to get her to marry you. Once married you have accomplished a goal, now to the next goal. Similar to walking with Christ. I said I accept the gift of salvation now let us move to the next item. But life does not work that way.

As for the subject on hand, as a husband who can state that he has completed many if not all of the so called things a husband is to do - Provide, Protect, Procreate, Lead the next generation to Christ, etc. However I still see that I need to continue to reassure my wife I am dedicated in continuing these items as my love for her. Just like we are dedicated to continue showing Christ our love for him. Sometimes we may find the actions required as repetitive, stupid, infantile, or back tracking. We find that we must do them to please our spouse / God. Look at how many times we are to forgive, how many times, before Christ came and completed the work on the cross, we had to do animal (or other forms of) sacrifice. I may not be happy 100% of the time, I may do it grumbling, but I do it out of love. As the result of me obeying and doing, the emotional uplifting will come. Also during the obedience we may start to see something different explaining "the why" we are doing what we do. It may not be for our enjoyment but the emotional enjoyment for the person we are doing it for. This then leads us to gain the emotional desire to continue, because we take joy in seeing the loved one being gratified.

God demands obedience and one of the items of obedience is to have an emotional relationship with Him. As a part of that we can have all of the mental and physical relationship locked down but we still need the emotional to help seal the deal.

In marriage, duty sex is good sex. It satisfies a need. But sex, with all of the emotional joy behind it, is out of this world. I have noticed it lately with my wife. She would give me an occasional hand job just to shut me up and to meet my physical needs. There was no passion, no kissing, no eagerness to explore of each other. It was very clinical - very obedient in meeting my needs with no passion. However now that things have improved her hand jobs have been more passion more everything that makes it great. Yes it is not full out PIV but it is just as passionate as when we were first married and great. SO yes the obedience is good, doing something -maybe not in perfect obedience - with emotion is good, but the best is to have the emotion with the obedience. I also see that in most cases the emotion will follow.

That is my experience. Each of us have different experiences. Each of us have different types of relationships - spouses and God. Some of us get the emotion after obedience and others will obey after the emotion is there. But the best is when we get them together and we can experience better closeness and better oneness.
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