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Radical Sex: God's foundation for a healthy marriage -- book report

What marriage resources have been helpful or encouraging to you?
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SeekingChange
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Re: Radical Sex: God's foundation for a healthy marriage -- book report

Post by SeekingChange »

Irnmyk wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 1:20 pm
SeekingChange wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:22 pm Ready for Ch. 8.
I think that you will like chapter eight. I went and looked - that's what I referred to in the quote above. I think it put it all in good perspective.
I have read it. It doesn't really answer my questions. One quote out of that chapter, "Women are just as excited about sex [as men]"..... totally not convinced on that, even if they approach it differently. I am not saying women can't be excited about sex, but with the 75% of marriages they are addressing, is the typical woman, truly excited about every (daily) sexual encounter? Even some, if not many, "higher drive" women who have been a part of TMB in the past haven't come close to pursuing their desire on a daily basis.

Back to the lack of practicality, for some women, to do what they suggest (think and prepare for sex all day, so that they can be enthusiastic), cannot happen without some major neglect to other important things in life....such as mothering. BTDT, and never have been able to find a balance yet. That's why I often say, "I am made for retirement." Without lots of time, little responsibility and little stress (not sure that's possible in ministry), my sexuality is limited and hindered....maybe it's a personality thing, but from what I observe, it seems to fall more under a female thing.

One more comment from your previous post
Irnmyk wrote: Thu Sep 30, 2021 8:02 am That all said, I think they missed one hugely important point where they failed to use their repetitious style of writing when they made the point - early in the book, and only one time, and without repetition - that sexual activity wasn't exclusively intercourse, that it could be hugging and cuddling, which, they quickly then add "could well lead to intercourse". (Pardon if I didn't quote EXACTLY there.)
I have a hard time clumping "hugging and cuddling" into "sexual activity".... it could turn into it, but it's not sexual activity in and of itself. But there's a lot of hugging and cuddling that goes on outside of a marriage relationship, and so it should....parent/child, grandparent/grandchild, friends comforting friends, giddy girls having a slumber party and cuddling up under a blanket to watch a show, etc, etc. There is benefit to physical touch and couples doing it, even if it's holding hands or sitting close to one another, that was actually a weeks assignment in a 90 day process we went through. But it seems like if they label that sexual activity, there's a little bit of a mixed message happening.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, to find comfort, to survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years... and then she did something new.
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Re: Radical Sex: God's foundation for a healthy marriage -- book report

Post by MrEden »

Still haven't read the book, but following those who have/are reading it with interest.
I have a hard time clumping "hugging and cuddling" into "sexual activity".... it could turn into it, but it's not sexual activity in and of itself.
Just wanted to say that "hugging and cuddling" can easily become a married-people-activity by simply doing it before you get dressed.

Also, I am questioning the use of the term "high-drive" and "low-drive" as commonly used. If you merely count the number of orgasms that a person wants, men will on average win hands-down. However, I am seeing that is not a good indicator of drive. I'll elaborate after I see how Radical Sex uses the term.
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Re: Radical Sex: God's foundation for a healthy marriage -- book report

Post by SeekingChange »

MrEden wrote: Fri Oct 01, 2021 5:47 am Also, I am questioning the use of the term "high-drive" and "low-drive" as commonly used.
Hmmm, I am not recalling those terms being used much, if at all. But that could be because my radar wasn't up looking for them.
God can change what people do, behavioral patterns that have been in play for decades. He can change what we do to cope, to find comfort, to survive conflict, to count. Rahab had done a same old thing for years... and then she did something new.
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Re: Radical Sex: God's foundation for a healthy marriage -- book report

Post by Irnmyk »

I don't remember those terms being used either, but the difference in drives or approaches was dealt with in Chapter 8.
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Re: Radical Sex: God's foundation for a healthy marriage -- book report

Post by MrEden »

I finished the book. Here are my Kindle notes.

A more detailed review may or may not follow. In summary:

Radical Sex is an OK book and worth your time to read.

I still take issue with their assertion that the primary purpose of marriage is to avoid sexual temptation.

Also, they have not made their case for daily sex. The book would be more effective if they simply make the case that sex is the primary component of marriage (which they do), then encourage couples to make sex the #1 priority in their marriage, and be generous with your spouse in both terms of frequency and effort put into pleasing them in the marriage bed.

Even if they did make a good case for daily sex, it would be hard to convince my wife to go for it by reading this book, seeing the primary reason given is to keep me from lusting for other women 🙄.


--------------------------------------------------------


Notes and highlights for
Radical Sex: God's Foundation for a Healthy Marriage

Yellow hilights are the usual underlining that one does when reading a book. There may be an occasional note.

Blue hilights are my comments on various passages of the book, usually but not always on points on which I disagree.


Highlight (blue) - Location 129
Marital sex has many benefits , but a primary one , from God’s perspective , is avoiding temptation .
Note - Location 130
What!? Shiela Wray Gregorie in her book The Great Sex Rescue discusses how damaging is the popular Evangelical Christian assertion that sexual lust is "every man's battle." Although the authors, to their credit, do not accept the "every man's battle" premise, they are nonetheless perpetuating it here, and furthermore are extending it to include women.

Highlight (blue) - Page 6 · Location 253
After all , sex every day is beyond anything we even imagine when we get married .
Note - Page 6 · Location 253
Not me!

Highlight (blue) - Page 12 · Location 321
Pornography provides an easy alternative to messy partner - sex .
Note - Page 12 · Location 321
I LIKE messy sex. The messier the better.

Highlight (blue) - Page 19 · Location 389
Paul has stated that the only reason to get married is to have frequent and reciprocal sex with your spouse so that you will not burn with passion and fall into sexual sin :
Note - Page 20 · Location 390
This is technically true with respect to 1 Cor 7. However, this, as well as Paul's stated preference for singleness, should not be taken as general advice for all time. Verse 26 refers to "present distress." Something extraordinary was going on that temporarily made marriage less desirable. Biblical scholar and historian David Instone-Brewer, in his book Divorce and Remarriage in the Church, claims that there was a famine going on at the time, and points out that in a time of famine when no reliable birth control existed, the possibility of bringing children into the world and being unable to feed them adequately was a real concern. While Paul does not recommend celebacy in general, he does recommend it for single people in 1 Cor 7. So Paul is implying that a significant number unmarried people are able to not give into sexual temptation. This undermines the authors' assertion that the primary reason for marriage is to avoid sexual temptation.

Highlight (blue) - Page 24 · Location 434
Husband , your responsibility is to have sex with your wife , and only your wife , whenever she asks you . Wife , your responsibility is to have sex with your husband , and only your husband , whenever he asks you .
Note - Page 24 · Location 435
"Due benevolence" could be translated as "generous." If both spouses are to be generous in meeting the other's needs, it follows that generousity also extends to the spouse making the "demand." The difficulties the other person may be facing that day may require that the "demanding" spouse agree to wait a day or two for the good of their spouse and their marriage. Shiela Wray Gregorie in her book The Great Sex Rescue, says something to the effect that without the possibility of saying "no" to sex, one cannot say "yes" either. She cites several Evangelical Christian authors who teach that 1 Cor 7 requires that we never say no to sex. She then makes a good case that "never say no" is not what this chapter is teaching.

Highlight (blue) - Page 27 · Location 468
This is why sexual immorality is the only acceptable reason for nullifying a marriage covenant ( Matthew 5 : 32 ) .
Note - Page 27 · Location 469
Most protestants agree that Paul also allows divorce and remarriage in cases of abandonment. (1 Cor 7:15). However, the Bible's teachings on divorce and remarriage are not straightforward, and there is much disagreement among scholars. John Piper does not agree that Paul allows divorce and remarriage for abandonment. However, he believes that Jesus does not allow divorce and remarriage for adultery either. On the other hand, David Instone-Brewer in his book Divorce and Remarriage in the Church believes that Paul's allowance for divorce is not Paul adding to the words of Jesus regarding divorce, but based on Exodus 21:10-11, which allowed divorce and remarriage for abandonment, or withholding of clothes, food, or sex. These reasons for divorce were universally accepted at the time of Christ, by both Shammai and Hillel.

So while adultery may not be the only grounds for divorce, the author could make the case that divorce is allowed for sexual refusal. Also, long term and unrepentant sexual refusal is also a form of sexual immorality.


Highlight (yellow) - Page 43 · Location 627
Yes , marriage is more than sex , but sex is what makes a marriage a marriage.

Highlight (yellow) - Page 44 · Location 638
Giving control of our body to someone else is not natural . It is supernatural . We can’t do this on our own . We need God .

Highlight (yellow) - Page 45 · Location 644
pre - marital counseling should be before the engagement not after .

Highlight (yellow) - Page 72 · Location 917
false gnostic asceticism hinted at in verse one ,

Highlight (blue) - Page 72 · Location 924
Wives who encourage such a belief (this false gnostic thinking that the physical is evil and the spiritual is good leaks into the church when husbands think that sexual restraint is a holier path). participate in their husbands sexual downfall .
Note - Page 72 · Location 924
Just wives, not husbands?

Highlight (blue) - Page 73 · Location 935
God’s solution to overcoming sexual temptation is to get married
Note - Page 73 · Location 935
Paul, however, RECCOMMENDS singleness. See note on page 19.

Highlight (blue) - Page 86 · Location 1061
“ Let him kiss me with the kisses of his mouth ! For your love is better than wine ; Draw me after you ; let us run . The king has brought me into his chambers ” ( Song of Solomon 1 : 2 , 4 ) .
Note - Page 86 · Location 1062
Gary Thomas in his sermon in the online Married Sex Seminar (Oct 2, 2021) states that he believes that since Songs starts out with this verse, sex is primarily for the wife.

Highlight (blue) - Page 87 · Location 1070
Men have a stronger sex drive generally but women have a greater capacity for sexual pleasure with the potential for multiple orgasms . Sex is different for men and women ;
Note - Page 87 · Location 1071
It is commonly stated that men have the higher drive. Jimmy Evans has stated that men are "more sexual" than women. However, I believe this is in error. This is true only if you look only at the number of sexual encounters desired. If you consider the number and intensity of orgasms the wife has, and the amount of mess she makes, it could be argued that she is the most sexual!

Highlight (blue) - Page 89 · Location 1092
Certainly , but a woman can also objectify her husband ,
Note - Page 89 · Location 1092
People marry for companionship, including sex. This is THE reason to marry. People also marry for other reasons, including practical considerations such as financial betterment and children. These ARE legitimate benefits of marriage. A problem arises when these other factors become the primary reason to marry. Women tend to consider their prospective spouse's financial and social status more than men do, and view marriage more in terms of children and a house with a white picket fence than companionship with a spouse.

Highlight (yellow) - Page 89 · Location 1097
marital unity , security , oneness , sexual self - control ,
Note - Page 90 · Location 1097
There are many benefits to marriage and sex besides an antidote to temptation. Genesis 2 states that the reason that God created sex is that it is not good for mankind to be alone. So far, the authors have made only passing references to reasons other than avoiding temptation.

Highlight (yellow) - Page 90 · Location 1100
4 . Doesn’t this teaching perpetuate the oppressive patriarchy of the past and set the women’s movement back a hundred years ?
Note - Page 90 · Location 1101
Very good section. This alone justifies the cost of the book. The authors handle the headship/submission vs. egalitarian debate fairly. By the way, this is unlike Shiela Wray Gregorie in her book The Great Sex Rescue. She is on the egalitarian side of the fence, as am I. However, scripture is not a clear on the issue as Gregorie seems to think it is. I fear that she is harming the overall message of her book by taking sides in this peripheral issue.

Highlight (yellow) - Page 91 · Location 1113
Married sex is the epitome of egalitarianism .

Highlight (yellow) - Page 101 · Location 1211
We read many Christian articles , online and off , about the “ one flesh ” reality of marriage . Every one without exception includes the qualifier , “ One flesh is more than sex . ” Essentially , this qualifier sweeps aside sex for “ more important ” elements of a successful marriage .

Highlight (yellow) - Page 107 · Location 1274
love , joy , peace , self - control , long suffering , patience , and goodness in a committed Christian marriage flow from physical intimacy , not the other way around .

Highlight (yellow) - Page 110 · Location 1308
God loves the spiritual and the physical equally .

Highlight (blue) - Page 112 · Location 1330
Don’t romanticize daily sex , because it’s very hard , perhaps the hardest thing you will ever do for your marriage .
Note - Page 112 · Location 1331
Hard as in "difficult", or hard as in "challenging?" "Challenging" can be good. People would not do fun things like play games or engage in sporting activities if they were not challenging. Challenging ourselves to grow and try new things in our marriage beds make sex more enjoyable. Are the authors saying that daily sex will be difficult, or challenging? If a couple makes a committment to daily sex, there will be adjustments to priorities to make time for daily sex. These adjustments will be difficult. That is not a bad thing. The real question is once the transition is made, will this self-imposed daily sex be a time that both the husband and wife will look forward to, enjoy, and find uplifting and refreshing? I do not feel that the authors have made the case that it will be.

Highlight (blue) - Page 127 · Location 1481
a guy's excessive desire
Note - Page 127 · Location 1481
The phrase "excessive desire" flies in the face of what this book has taught up to this point.


Highlight (yellow) - Page 146 · Location 1670
Do not bring attention to yourself , especially exhibiting any hint of sensuality . If you do , you are causing your brothers in Christ to fall into lust ! This is wrong on so many fronts
Note - Page 146 · Location 1671
I am glad that the authors do not buy into the "Every Man's Battle" hand-wringing.

Highlight (yellow) - Page 150 · Location 1711
the most important activity of society ; that is , in a peaceful and stable society , is frequent and reciprocal sex between husband and wife in a committed marriage .

Highlight (blue) - Page 153 · Location 1739
Your desire shall be contrary to your husband ,
Note - Page 153 · Location 1740
Appears to be English Standard Version. I see no justification for inserting "contrary to.'

Highlight (blue) - Page 153 · Location 1748
but no one can argue that the context of the next curse is marriage .
Note - Page 153 · Location 1749
... is NOT marriage. (Typo)


Highlight (yellow) - Page 161 · Location 1819
“ sexless marriage ” is Googled three times more than “ unhappy marriage . ”

Highlight (yellow) - Page 169 · Location 1902
sex is the most selfless , loving act in a marriage .
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