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Toxic Masculinity

How does God fit into our sex lives?
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TheStateOfThings
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Re: Toxic Masculinity

Post by TheStateOfThings »

My immediate response to this is look at the words. The very words "toxic masculinity" in and of themselves are an attempt to lie. We have to define masculinity before we define this term. Since men and women were created in the image of God that is our standard. Meaning this, when you are being masculine, as a man, manly, you are being in the image of God as He created you. When you are being feminine, as a woman, womanly, you are being in the image of God as He created you. Therefore, of you are masculine, and also toxic, we are essentially saying that to be in the image of God is toxic.
Now I know that no one here has said that, but words do matter, and I have found when we dig deep in our minds, the words we use have influence over how we think. I, myself, and I am not saying others may have this concern, become concerned when I start looking at God's creation and calling the core of it wrong, or toxic if you will. The very term toxic masculinity is to suggest that when one is masculine, one is toxic. That is the purpose of it, regardless of how others choose to use it.
How can we conclude that is the purpose? By the points layed out previously. The term toxic masculinity is a lie in my mind. I will not call God's creation, as He created it wrong.
Now you may say that we are distorting His creation and thus can be toxicly male. I think it is more like this, the more we go our own way, the less male or female we become. The more out of tune with God, and thus His creation we become.
So when we exhibit behaviors such as hyper aggression, bullying, hatred, abusiveness, manipulation, we are not being more male or female, but less so. A person who exhibits these behaviors is moving away from God's creation and thus becoming less male and less female depending on their sex.
This goes in tune with the world's obsession with dropping their identity. In our self absorption to have an identity, we actually start losing any sense of identity. Trying to separate from gender itself even. I think that the term toxic masculinity is just one of the starter terms to go down this path. That, if you believe it is real, that at some point, a man who exhibits himself as God created him to can be toxic, you are starting to accept your loss of identity. The very identity God tried to create you with.
Words matter, and to me they have far reaching implications. These words, by their very meaning certainly do. I really want to be like how God created me to be, so I will pursue what that means continually and yes, I and many others will be called toxic, mean, uncaring, ect. These terms could not be farther from the truth. The Christian goal is to care and love, and to do so is to be more masculine or feminine, because that is how we were made by our Creator.
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newwifenewlife
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Re: Toxic Masculinity

Post by newwifenewlife »

TheStateofThings - I like the ideas of saying "toxic males or females". It separates the person's behavior from their gender.

I would disagree with your first paragraph though about, "When you are being feminine, as a woman, womanly, you are being in the image of God as He created you. Therefore, of you are masculine, and also toxic, we are essentially saying that to be in the image of God is toxic". While I see where you're trying to go, I'm not following the logic because to me that line of reasoning would mean that God is "toxic" because His Creation (the world) went toxic or Satan himself since he was God's creation as well. Scripture separates our poor behavior from our value to Him as His Creations and His love for us in spite of our behavior.
LBD
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Re: Toxic Masculinity

Post by LBD »

saying that to be in the image of God is toxic.
The very term toxic masculinity is to suggest that when one is masculine, one is toxic.
… if you believe it is real, that at some point, a man who exhibits himself as God created him [is] toxic, you are starting to accept your loss of identity.
::praise This guy gets it! And to understand this, you must also understand from where these lies begin.

“You will surely NOT die.” Gen 3:4

The truth is that those who throw the term around are doing so to perpetuate a bigger lie. It is the method of collectivism to force fault on an entire sector of humanity and force that sector to bend to the will of the collective. They cannot allow individual thought or admit that individual choices are even possible. It is unbelievably hypocritical however because the modern political collectivist claims to champion individualism, but only as long as it fits their mold. If masculinity is accepted as the norm, or even acceptable, then the homosexual, the “transgender”, the alphabet soup group have opposition within the collective. At its core, the term is a watchword to the larger agenda to remove God from society.

This is why I say all the bad behavior traits that have been shared here are NOT “toxic masculinity”, they are just plain old sin. Nothing less, nothing more. Each individual choices. The world long ago lost the willingness and ability to call sin by its name. Now I see that propensity becoming more in vogue within the church. I have said the world needs more Godly masculine men. But the church’s head actually commands it within His body. Ephesians 5:22-33.
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance. -Thomas Sowell
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TheStateOfThings
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Re: Toxic Masculinity

Post by TheStateOfThings »

@newwifenewlife

So we are asking the question did God create sin? This question goes back to whether we have free will or not. I believe we do, I believe God created us with free will. We were created in the image of God and then we chose to throw down and defile that image. Does that make God responsible? Only if He orchestrated us to do so. He gave us free will and we chose our way over His way. The result is death. God cannot be responsible for our actions. If He were we could blame God every time something went wrong in our lives. Likewise, the devil cannot be responsible for our actions. Nor can God be responsible for the devil's actions. In reality, the only people that can be blamed for when things go wrong are ourselves. Because we are not doing what God thinks is best. Or maybe you are, but someone else is not doing what God thinks is best so it causes you to fall on hard times even though you are an obedient servant. This is why the God who is justice (and so much more) hates sin, because it creates unjust and cruel situations. That is what I believe, which is why I can make that argument. You may believe differently which would of course void the idea I am getting at. That is perfectly fine :D

Edit: Also, this is an excellent question. It is why I say that words matter. I have found that when we talk about God's creation, that is to say, the core of the question of why. We oftentimes get down to what we believe about God. If men being more like men makes them toxic, then did God create a fallen world? Those are excellent difficult questions that we as Christians absolutely need to be asking and facing even though to me personally, they can be scary sometimes. Thank you for your comments @newwifenewlife, you have caused my brain to kick it's furnaces on.
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Re: Toxic Masculinity

Post by Love and Theft »

"If men being more like men makes them toxic"

That's not true at all. It's a man thing to putter around in the hardware aisle at Home Depot, but I doubt anyone is going to call you "toxic" for that. Obviously, when we talk about toxic behavior, we're referring to genuinely harmful things, such as a group of men joking about sex and making the female co-workers feel uncomfortable. Ask women in male-dominated fields to define toxic masculinity and they'll give you dozens of examples. One of my in-laws is an engineer and she's been the subject of jokes, advances and chauvinism for the past 30 years. She loves men but also could tell you stories about the toxicity she's experienced.
LBD
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Re: Toxic Masculinity

Post by LBD »

Love and Theft wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:26 am One of my in-laws is an engineer and she's been the subject of jokes, advances and chauvinism for the past 30 years.
Has she experienced this from every man in her office/department/field?

If the answer is no, then she has not experienced "toxic masculinity", she has experienced bad behavior from some jerk men.
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance. -Thomas Sowell
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LBD
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Re: Toxic Masculinity

Post by LBD »

I take @TheStateOfThings point as being that God created "masculinity", or the general traits we recognize as male and opposed them to the feminine traits that we recognize as generally female. "He created them male and female." Not only different in genitalia, but in fundamental traits. To label either one as toxic by nature would be to say God created a toxic nature.

And my point is that those who bandy that term around mean just that - though they would prefer to not give God any credit at all.
It is usually futile to try to talk facts and analysis to people who are enjoying a sense of moral superiority in their ignorance. -Thomas Sowell
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SLS
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Re: Toxic Masculinity

Post by SLS »

A quick "my two cents" post on this.

I looked up the definition of "masculinity" according to the Oxford dictionary.
Masculinity: qualities or attributes regarded as characteristic of men
Note that this definition does not indicate who is "regarding" these traits. It could be any one person, culture, or religion. A trivial example is that in some cultures beards are seen as an essential male characteristic. Those cultures define that trait as "masculine".

In other words the word "masculinity" is not, by itself, a God ordained term indicating God's design for men.

The word needs an adjective to get to that point. That could be "godly" (godly masculinity). If we say godly masculinity it is clear that we are defining what qualities or attributes are associated with males based on God's design.

"Toxic masculinity" is just applying another adjective. It indicates characteristics that some people or cultures have regarded as attributes of men that are in fact toxic to men themselves and to the women around them.

An example would be the "real men don't cry" canard. It damages men's emotional well being, hence it is toxic.

I agree that some groups have taken the term and tried to apply it to every conceivable concept of masculinity cause they hate men. That is wrong.

It is equally wrong, however, to act like our own cultures (whatever they may be) should define God designed masculinity.
Love and Theft wrote: Tue Sep 07, 2021 11:26 am"Ask women in male-dominated fields to define toxic masculinity and they'll give you dozens of examples.
My wife experienced this a bit in her previous job with some of her contractors. Fortunately the men she worked with on a day to day basis had no tolerance for that behavior. There is a lot more power nowadays in the hands of women and good men to shut down toxic behaviors like this.
Happily married to Serafina for 7 years. She is my Venus. ::luv2
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